Lisa Erickson, 6

Interview with Lisa Erickson

MP:

Okay. Honestly, I feel like we have just got onto something. The kundalini conversation took us off to the side a bit. So, I will ask a few more questions, if that is okay. I am intrigued by your answers. Integrity and surrender– integrity I suppose is the quality that arises out of integration. Our biology, for example, expresses impeccable integrity following the designs of Mother Nature. Our bodies are integrated. This integrity is in place.

If we become scattered and lost due to our focus on personality and ego, then we lose touch with this integrity. Our choices arise out of ideas instead of this integrity and health often suffers as a result. So getting in touch with our center is in essence getting in touch with our most integral self– at the core– the source from which this integrity emerges. I can see that, yes. Surrender, for me is similar in that we are letting go of personality, ego, ideas and all that distracts us from heart, core, source, and simply being.

I don't know if you are familiar with the work of Esther and Jerry Hicks and The Art of Allowing. It is very interesting material and suggests that it can ALL happen by itself. To jump around a bit, you also mention teachers. There is the expression that "when the student is ready, the teacher will appear". In my opinion, the teacher is already and always here in the form of circumstance. We are surrounded by that which is perpetually giving us guidance if we can manage to pay attention.

For me, meditation IS this paying attention, regardless of what form it takes. If we surrender or let go of motive and ambition and allow, we will witness what we need to. If, on the other hand we remain caught up in our ambitions and our egos, then circumstances will continue to throw us curves attempting to startle us into awareness by a turn of events.

Both these paths, voluntary and involuntary, result in either a temporary or long-term dropping of our preoccupation with peripherals, and so we focus on our center– THE center. So, here come the questions. Do you believe anything beyond this "paying attention" is necessary? Do you believe anyone and everyone is fully capable of getting in touch with their centers, if only the impulse or intention is there? And when, if ever, do you feel a teacher (and I mean another person) is necessary?

Lisa:

Well, I have been sitting on this one all day! Because I think I could write pages on it, so I wanted to get down to the essence of what I really think. First off, I love your definitions of integrity and surrender. I had not thought about integrity and integration in quite these terms, and I really like the biological angle especially.

As to whether I think everyone is capable of finding their centers– or in my terms capable of knowing themselves as pure light– YES. I absolutely believe this is the birthright of every human being. But I also think that for most of us, it is a much trickier business than is often portrayed. For most of us, there are layers of conditioning and ego-identification that we need to face and see through in order to find this deepest self.

We can have experiences of this falling away, and more and more people are having this experience in this day and age. But that is not the same thing as knowing this, as dwelling in this light or center, and living from it, all of the time. For most of us, doing that requires digging pretty deep, really getting into our 'shadows' and facing them, and releasing them. It goes beyond 'experiences'.

I am really trying to avoid words like enlightenment, liberation, self realization or awakening here, because I think they can become traps. And I am not sure everyone is always talking about the same things when they use these terms. Who says there is only one spiritual goal or endgame? Who says we are all seeking the same thing? I am not sure we are– I think there may be many different 'goals', and thus many different paths.

I didn't used to think this way. It is a change that has occurred recently. So whatever we are talking about, you asked, do I think it requires more than 'paying attention'? I guess that depends on how you define paying attention. REALLY paying attention, really being in the now, is seeing reality directly, without the filters of our conditioning or ego-identification. So perhaps there are some people, many people maybe even, who can do this without a teacher.

And certainly I agree that circumstance is often our best teacher, when true intent is there. But many of us can't break through solely with this, because the ego seeing the ego is a very tricky business. And there are traps we can fall into along the way. Teachings and teachers are meant to help us through this trickiness and these traps. And what kind of teaching and teacher we need is very individual, and will come to us also when true intent is there.

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